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... \\ The next trick is to lay out the page by writing CSS to position the divs. This is where I have a problem - there is too much unnecessary abstraction here. Actually abstraction is too kind, this is a case of disconnection. I have to go over \*here\*, to a separate file to CSS and try to move them divs around. me: "Hey you - go left". me: You there - yes you, the table of contents, can you just sort of float there under that logo. No not UNDER the logo, beneath it, I mean further down the page." me: "And you, the main content div - can you get back up here where we can see you." header: "Hey - the footer is sitting on me." I'd say its like herding cats, but I don't use that metaphor. It makes sense that it's this way - it suits the web design crowd. They can spend their time evangelising at each other and selling website makeovers. Now there's an idea for reality TV. PS - there are no tables here because this man is a genius, like that old Italian bloke.